Following is a transcript of the debate yesterday among candidates for governor. The moderator for the debate was Bill Ritter of WABC, Eyewitness News.
MR. RITTER
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Let me introduce you to them. Their order of seating, by the way, was randomly selected. We drew their names from a hat. And here they are: Carl McCall, the Democratic Party candidate; Gerry Cronin, the Right to Life Party candidate; George Pataki, the Republican Party candidate; Tom Leighton, the Marijuana Reform Party candidate; Scott Jeffrey, the Libertarian Party candidate; Stanley Aronowitz, the Green Party candidate; and Tom Golisano, the Independence Party candidate.
Also with us today are three panelists. Let me introduce them to you, to my left they are: Joel Siegel, senior political correspondent for The New York Daily News; Dave Evans, political reporter for Eyewitness News; and David Ushery, also a reporter for Eyewitness News.
Gentlemen, the ground rules for round one of this debate are quite simple, each candidate will have a maximum one minute to answer the question. And let me advise you I have been advised to enforce that one-minute rule.
To begin the questioning today, Joel Siegel of The Daily News. The first question is for Mr. McCall.
Q.
Mr. McCall, good morning.
MR. MCCALL
Good morning, Joel. Q.
The next governor will face a budget gap of at least $8 to $10 billion dollars. Painful budget cuts seem unavoidable. Yet, Mr. McCall, neither you nor Mr. Pataki have detailed what you would cut. Elections are about choices. So please tell voters unambiguously, what are your top three priorities for cutting the budget and why?
MR. MCCALL
Joel, I don't think you approach this from the standpoint of what are you going to cut. We've got to approach this from the standpoint: What are we going to do for the people in the State of New York? How are we going to turn around an economy that's going in the wrong direction? How are we going to make up for eight years of wasted opportunities?
We had the largest surplus ever, but that was squandered in terms of the governor spent at three time the rate of inflation. We increased, the governor increased taxes by overspending, by over - actually increased borrowing by some 30 percent. And companies are leaving New York. People are going away. So our economy's in disrepair.
And my job is to turn it around. And I have a plan based on my considerable experience in both the public sector and the private sector to reach out to companies across this state, to really listen to them and work with them in partnerships to make sure we keep the good companies here and attract additional companies to grow the economy. We've got to grow out of this. We don't cut our way out of it, we don't tax our way out of it. We've got to get New York's economy moving. And I have outlined a detailed plan for improving the economy of New York State.
Q.
O.K., thank you Mr. McCall. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
First of all I'd like to say thank, you know, I'm very grateful for being here today. I want to thank Governor Pataki for allowing all of us to participate.
The budget deficit is obviously a great concern to all of us. One thing that I would very much like to see happen is to eliminate the spending of state money, taxpayers' money, on abortion. As the Right to Life candidate I firmly believe that a child in the womb is innocent and should live. And I don't, and the abortion procedure is an elective procedure. There are 48,000 abortions paid each year by taxpayer money. So that's one way.
Another way I would advise for the state to save money is to embrace the concept of the voucher system. We spend over $10,000 a year per student in New York State. And with the voucher system you could then save money on that behalf because it costs about $3,000 to $4,000 for a student to be educated on the private level. So those are two ideas that I have.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Well, Bill, first let me thank you and ABC for hosting this debate, and thank The Daily News as well for participating. And I want to thank all of the people watching today for your interest in the issues affecting this state, and also thank you for the privilege of leading this state for the past seven and a half years.
We do face budget challenges as we go forward, but we've faced them before. When I took office in 1995 we had a $5-billion deficit - and there was no national recession, there were no aftermaths of horrible attacks - and we closed it by restructuring the government and looking to reduce the cost and the size of government.
We faced a similar challenge this year because of the aftermath of Sept. 11. And we again closed the budget deficit in a way that allowed us to continue to cut taxes to improve our economic climate here in New York State, and allowed us to continue to protect our highest credit rating in over a generation as well as a record surplus. We still have today five times more in surpluses than we did when I took office.
And I'm proud that as we look to the future, Standard & Poor's has said New York has its highest credit rating and they're well prepared for the future.
Q.
O.K., thank you Mr. Pataki. Mr. Leighton, your response.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well firstly, no one candidate on this stage alone can solve the problem. The Marijuana Reform Party has a plan and here's what I propose to do:
Agriculture is a mainstay of New York's economy. And it has a multiplier effect. Family farms are being shut down or going out of business, and valuable farmland is being lost to urban sprawl. What the state should do is allow New York farmers to grow hemp for industrial purposes.
This would not only save the family farm and preserve valuable farmland for the future, but it will also provide raw materials to revitalize manufacturing industries in clothing, textiles, paper products. And these new industries would affect the economies very directly. It would also help the garment workers down in New York City.
We could also save another $1 billion, almost $1 billion, by repealing the Rockefeller drug laws and stopping the arrest of people for minor marijuana offenses. This does not represent a total solution, but it is a sound beginning.
Q.
Mr. Leighton, thank you. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Well first I wanted to thank the Libertarian Party for nominating me and looking towards someone as young as myself for new ideas a new energy.
Corporate welfare is bankrupting our state and destroying our economy. New York subsidizes giant corporations through wasteful projects like building new malls and sports stadiums. Although done in the name of economic development, these projects aren't free. New York suffers under some of the highest tax rates in the nation, precisely because of boondoggles like these, resulting in a completely uncompetetive environment for small business.
Now Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same corporate coin. Although Libertarians are outspoken in our support of capitalism, we are equally loud in our outrage when big government subsidizes big business.
So we need to end corporate welfare and return our state to fiscal responsibility.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ. Well, I think it is hollow to talk about education, health and other needs of the State of New York without asking us to raise taxes. We need new sources of revenue.
First, I agree with the previous speakers about the need to repeal the Rockefeller drug laws and decriminalize drugs. That can save money. I also agree that we need to stop corporate welfare.
But having said that, we need a plan that will make people who can pay more, pay more, and leave the lower- and middle-income taxpayer in a position where they don't have to pay more sales taxes and more property taxes in order to pay to their schools.
So my plan would say tax those who are most able to pay and tax fairly and spend wisely so we meet the needs of our people. And unless we have new taxes there's absolutely no way we're going to close the budget gap.
Q.
Mr. Aronowitz, thank you. Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
Thank you, it's nice to be here this morning. I think the first thing we could, should cut relative to our budget is the umbilical cord between special interests and our state officials. If there's anything that's driven up the cost of government in this state it's the special interests. It could be Dennis Rivera's 1199 union, it could be $200 million grants to New York City teachers and then endorsements following right after.
We have gotten ourselves in a very difficult position. In the last eight years our state budget has gone up 45 percent, our debt's gone up 35 percent. We are the highest taxed population in this country. And the result of it is lost jobs.
For the fiscal management going forward, here are some of the things we need to do:
We have to start utilizing zero-based management and zero-based budgeting, meaning every department in the state starts from a fresh piece of paper when they outline their budget for the fiscal year. And then decisions are made whether or not to keep those programs or not.
Second, we need resolve to keep our budget growth at the rates of less than inflation. With our state population growing, there is no reason why we need to have budgets growing at the rate of two, three and four times the rate of inflation.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Thank you all, gentlemen, for that first question. For our second question we turn to Dave Evans of Eyewitness News. Dave?
Q.
Thank you, Bill. Mr. Cronin, let's talk for a second about the possibility of a tax increase next year. Many say that a tax increase is the only way that we're going to be able to avoid devastating cuts in services next year because of the budget problems. But as you have just heard perhaps, Comptroller McCall and Governor Pataki have said very little about the possibility of a tax hike next year. Can you promise right now that there will not be a tax increase next year if elected?
MR. CRONIN
I cannot make that promise. I don't think that's, I don't think that's being honest to the people. Taxes are part of life. They hurt, you know. I mean they hurt.
For instance, when I was a teacher, I'm a teacher, and out of every $100 that I make I take home $62. That's an awful lot of money to be taken out of your check. But every once in a while you do have to raise taxes. I think what you have to do is try to make the taxes as fair as possible.
I'm not saying that you should tax the rich, but if there are special interests, like for instance now they just, they raised the taxes obviously on smoking to a great degree. Things like that. Perhaps things like alcohol. Things like special entertainments. Things like luxury items perhaps, that's like yachts and boats and things like that.
So I would try my best to not tax the little guy, but to try and tax those who perhaps are in a better position. But I would try my best to avoid taxes if at all possible.
Q.
Thank you. Mr. Pataki, the issue is raising taxes.
MR. PATAKI
Dave, I can tell you right now we're not going to raise taxes next year. We've been through this before, 1995 a $5-billion deficit. And we not only did not raise taxes, we began the most sweeping tax-cut program in the history of this state. We have cut taxes 63 times. The gross savings is over $100 billion. And 25 percent of all tax cuts in America over the course of the past seven and a half years have been in New York.
I mean today in this city if you go out and purchase an article of clothing with a value of up to $110, you don't pay any state or city sales tax anymore. We have the Star tax-cut program to help our seniors and all home owners deal with their school tax problems, and we've been very successful. And today more than 200,000 senior citizens in this state pay no property, school property taxes at all because of our Star program.
We're going to have to reduce again and control the size of state government. This year state government will spend 1 billion in general fund revenues less than last year. Next year we're going to have to continue to have tough fiscal policies. But we've done it throughout my term, we'll continue to do that.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, as I said to my first question, the Marijuana Reform Party has an economic plan based upon a new hemp industry that will bring in new revenue. Now, we all know most people don't want to pay taxes, but there is one group who does. I represent close to one million New Yorkers who are - they're probably standing in line ready, willing to pay taxes. New Yorker who smoke marijuana would much rather pay taxes to the state via a regulated market for marijuana and not have to risk getting arrested or buying their marijuana from a black market dealer. I am probably the only candidate on this stage who has a constituency that wants to pay more taxes. And I hope that we'll have a chance to get them to do that. In fact the Marijuana Reform Party constituency is probably the only constituency in this nation that wants to pay more taxes.
Q.
Mr. Leighton, thank you. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Well, I am a pot smoker who does not want to pay more taxes, but I'm fighting against the cigarette tax. It's a regressive tax on the working families of our state. The average smoker pays over $500 a year through this tax and it's over $1,000 if you live in the city. And the cigarette tax is much like a lottery: It is billed as voluntary, but when you break it down the revenues raised come from our poorest community.
And the Democrats and Republicans play divide and conquer with the American people. They demonize cigarette smokers who may be making poor choices but are breaking no laws. Now, tobacco is an addictive drug. Taxing smokers will not save their lives. Treatment, like the patch, must be more affordable. And, as far as I'm aware, I think I'm the only candidate up here who is against the cigarette tax.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
If we do not raise taxes on those best able to afford them, we're going to have layoffs of state workers right after this election, tuition in higher education, public higher education, is going to be increased. The idea of giving 3.2 million of our citizens who do not have health care insurance of any kind a break to get health care insurance will go by the boards, and our state education fund, the aid fund, will not be equalized and there's no chance of it.
I have a plan and the plan is relatively simple. On those incomes above $80,600 payroll taxes, when the Social Security tax stops I am for a 2-percent general welfare tax on all that income. So if you make $100,000 a year, you would pay $380 in additional taxes. This could raise us $4 billion. And I'm for taxing those corporations who do business with the three stock exchanges.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Golisano, the issue is taxes.
MR. GOLISANO
I'm always amused at the difference between perception and reality. Mr. Pataki has said that he's reduced taxes. Our state budget, under his jurisdiction, has gone from $62 billion to $89 billion. That is a 45-percent increase, that is $1,500 for every man, woman and child. If taxpayers aren't paying those taxes, I don't know who is. Maybe Santa Claus is. But our taxes have definitely gone up.
Also, I wanted to look at taxation at a different level. I have been talking to county executives all over this state and state mandates are driving our county into financial disaster, whether they're mandating more welfare, more Medicaid, more public defender rates, etc. Every county executive I talked to across this state is befuddled because the state has mandated that they provide more services without the money to provide for them.
We need to cut spending, that's the answer. Thank you.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Our next question is from David Ushery. Sorry, Mr. McCall, I apologize, I'm out of order here.
MR. MCCALL
I'd like to talk about taxes, too. I think the issue here is credibility in terms of who has the credibility by standing here and saying, I'm not going to cut taxes because I have a plan. I have the credibility because I've saved the taxpayers, actually, over $4 billion over the last several years because of my management of the pension fund.
On the other hand, Governor Pataki talks about the fact he reduced taxes. What he really did is he transferred the tax burden from the state to the localities. Tom Golisano mentioned it. Right now, for instance, property taxes here in New York State are the highest in the nation - 72 percent above the national average. Just in the last week Nassau County announced that they're going to increase their property taxes by 19 percent, Westchester by 31 percent. That's because the tax burden has just been shifted to the localities where they're least able to pay.
The other thing that's happened is fees have increased. And what is a fee but another tax. We face the prospect of an increase in the fare for the Metropolitan Transit Authority. Why? That's just a hidden tax because of the mismanagement and lack of information by the people who have been appointed to the M.T.A. by Governor Pataki.
So credibility's the issue. Look at the record of who cut taxes, who saved people money in the past and who's committed to continue to save money for taxpayers.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Thank you. And I'm sorry for leaving you out there momentarily. Now we turn to David Ushery with our next question, to Mr. Pataki.
Q.
Governor, good morning. I'd like to ask you a question on the subject of leadership. As governor you've promised to overhaul the harsh Rockefeller drug laws. You said you would include gays in the state's nondiscrimination laws. And you said you would lead the way for significant campaign finance reform. Nothing of substance has really happened on any of these issues. Why didn't you succeed and why should the voters believe that you will be any more successful in your -
MR. PATAKI
Well, David, let me say that I'm proud of the leadership I've shown over the course of the past seven and a half years. And this state has achieved more reforms and greater change under my leadership than, I believe, in decades prior.
Just take a look at our health care system. We have completely changed the way the system operates, making it more accessible and more affordable. Some of the reforms we've achieved are we have now the finest senior citizen prescription drug program, our Epic program, anywhere in America. We're the only state in America today where every single child is entitled to comprehensive health insurance. And we're in the process now of making sure that lower-income working adults are entitled to this.
We've reformed our criminal justice system from top to bottom. And our streets are the safest they've been in a generation. We ended parole and early release for violent felons. We created a tougher approach to criminals so that they have to spend more time behind bars.
And we have achieve dramatic reform in education as well. And one of the most important reforms that we achieved this year was finally giving control of the New York City schools to the mayor of this city. We will continue to fight for reforms and achieve those.
Q.
Mr. Pataki, thank you. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, I certainly would not want to fault the leadership of Governor Pataki. I think he's done an interest - a good job, and the voters of New York seem to support him.
But the Rockefeller drug laws that you mentioned are [an] especially important issue to my party and my platform. There are at least 600 billion, $600 million spent every year to house 19,000 nonviolent drug offenders, 94 percent of whom are black and Hispanic. This policy has just got to change. The question is how are we going to do it?
And I think that's why we do need a Marijuana Reform Party, we need a political voice for people who want to change drug laws in this state. And until we have a unified group of voters, the politicians will not respond to us.
But today while I'm here I would like to ask the governor and Comptroller McCall, as the titular head of your party, isn't there some way that you can put politics aside and work together on this issue and finally solve it and improve the lives and save many people in the state and save the state money? It's time to put politics aside and do this now. And I urge you to do that.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Leighton. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Well on the subject of leadership, I'm running for governor to empower youth and provide my generation a voice in politics. Young New Yorkers are politically apathetic because we don't meet candidates with whom we identify and who campaign on issues relevant to our lives.
So besides my own campaign, I've been very active in recruiting other young New Yorkers to run for office. We have two college students up in New Paltz, Jen Rog and Mike Farrar, who are running on a pro-hemp platform. We also have a gentleman, Andres Tirado, running in the Lower East Side fighting for choice within the public school system. I've recruited both of these, or all three of these candidates, and I'm always looking for other youth to join in our efforts.
I also empower youth by providing fliers on my Web site so people can speak out on the issues, on youth issues, and get them out in the public forum.
So I invite young people to visit my Web site. It's www.votejeffrey.com. My last name is spelled J-E-F-F-R-E-Y. So please visit votejeffrey.com
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Thank you. Mr. Aronowitz? And I want to remind you gentlemen the issue is Governor Pataki's leadership. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Well, I can't see how we are going to make our campaigns a level playing field as long as we have large corporations and wealthy individuals supporting candidates to the tune of millions upon millions of dollars. What we need in the first place is campaign finance reform. We need public funding of campaigns. And we need a sharp limitation on the amount of money that individuals can give to candidates.
Secondly, it is outrageous that we still don't really have full gay rights in our state legislation.
And thirdly, I obviously do not want to change our marijuana, excuse me, our Rockefeller drug laws, I want to repeal them and decriminalize drugs. We can save billions of dollars if we actually get rid of these laws because it reminds me of prohibition in the 1920's when alcohol was illegal. And I think drug illegality is really an irrational response to the fears that people have.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Golisano, the issue is Mr. Pataki's leadership.
MR. GOLISANO
Well, the issue of crime, of course crime is down all over the United States and during the last eight years Mr. Pataki has taken a lot of credit for reducing crime. I sort of equate it to a rooster taking credit for a sunrise. Crime is down all over the country, we enjoyed the benefits here in New York State.
The Rockefeller laws that you asked about are quite harsh. For example, a person caught with 4 ounces of a narcotic substance could be sent to prison for 15 years to life. Politicians should not be making those type of decisions, judges should be.
But if we do really want to continue to reduce crime the one thing we can do that'll make the biggest difference is people who have jobs do not commit crimes. We've got to get our taxpayer money back to the people, let them spend it on the things that makes their quality of life better and that will create jobs. When government takes our money, we don't create jobs, we just create waste.
Q.
Mr. Golisano, thank you. Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
You know leadership is about accepting responsibility. The governor has to accept the responsibility for the fact that the gay rights bill didn't pass, that campaign finance reform has not been enacted, that we still have late budgets. These things still happen.
And now the new scandal that we see, in terms of the fact that we've got the United States Justice Department coming to New York to look at the scandals in our nursing homes. The fact that under Governor Pataki that people have been pushed out of mental health institutions operated by the state and now we learn that they're being locked up in nursing homes, which is a violation of their civil rights. The governor, I believe, should accept responsibility to this. He can't say, well, some professionals made this decision. The governor's in charge, he makes those decisions and he's responsible.
I would hope that the governor would apologize to the families and victims of this terrible, terrible expression of disregard for some of our most fragile, most vulnerable people. To take people out of homes and lock them up because they have mental illness, without any plan to deal with their rights or to release them.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
Yes, well, I think that we have some serious problems in politics today, leadership. I'd like to comment on the governor's leadership. I believe George Pataki did a fine job during the crisis of 9/11. I think upstate and downstate, with the leadership of Rudy Giuliani, that there was a real team effort. I think Mr. Cuomo, who's not here today, really hurt himself terribly by making a negative statement in regards to the governor's leadership. So I have serious philosophical differences with Mr. Pataki. I am the Right to Life candidate and I would like to discuss that at another point. But I do want to thank him for his leadership.
And I also want to thank him, also, for today allowing the different views to be expressed. As one of the gentlemen mentioned, the young people today are just apathetic about the political process. I talk to people today, I say, are you going to vote for me? Oh, I'd like to vote, I'm not registered. And why aren't you? I don't want to do jury duty. This is the response I receive.
So I think that the governor has tried to reach out to different people. He did a fine job during 9/11 and I want to commend him for that and thank him for today.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Cronin. Mr. Pataki, in the interest of fairness, we'll give you 30 seconds to respond to what's been said.
MR. PATAKI
Well, I'm proud of my leadership and I'm proud of what we've done. And just responding specifically to Tom's comment on crime. I ended early release and work release for violent felons in this state. The rate of crime in those programs is down by 91 percent. The rate of violent crime is down by more in New York State than any state in America. I'm proud of that. I'm proud of the record and I'm proud of what we've done.
With respect to the mental health question, Carl, I fully am proud of my professionals and what they've done. When I took office, there were 5,000 New Yorkers in nursing homes, not in New York, locked up out of state away from their families, away from the community. We are bringing them back and that is an important positive thing for them and for their families.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. And, gentlemen, I'd like to remind you please answer the question as the reporter presents it. We know you all have your campaign stumps and everything else, but try to be specific to the question. Thank you.
Next round of questionings go to Joel Siegel. We start with Joel Siegel and his question is to Mr. Leighton.
Q.
Mr. Leigton, the state has increased spending on the public school system, higher standards have been imposed, yet many of our public schools remain in crisis. So give us three specific ideas that you have to fix our schools. And, given the state's budget problems, how would you pay for them?
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, firstly, I think that when it comes to the public education is not the only answer. One of the important things, there need to be improvements in the home lives of many students. Parents and teachers - parents and students do not value education enough. So the government cannot replace parents, but if we had better parental discipline, improved home environments and proper nutrition, that would go a long way to making our schools better.
Secondly, I think what we need to do is change the way our public schools are financed. I propose that we shift the funding of public schools away from the property tax and to a combination of sales and income taxes, thereby all citizens, all taxpayers would pay their fair share. At the same time it would end up giving all schools an equal amount because the money would be distributed evenly coming from a general source.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Leighton, thank you. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Well, I'm running to expand choice within the public school system. I went to Midwood High School in Brooklyn and it's what is called a magnet school - a public school that takes students from outside its district. Midwood was devoted to math and science. Our sister school Morrow was devoted to communication.
Choice allows for diversity and diversity creates academic success. No child should be forced to attend a local school that doesn't meet his or her needs. Educational options provide students real rewards for hard work in the early grades. New York City schoolchildren are the brightest in the world, they demand an education to match.
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey, thank you. Mr. Aronowitz, education.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Yeah, well, my 18-year-old daughter, who's now in college, went to New York City public schools and she went to a high school, which, in her junior year, she was subjected to high-stakes standardized testing. That is an unfunded mandate. If the state education commissioner says you must have a high-stake standardized test and you don't put money into it to make sure people can have Regents examinations that they can pass, that's a scandal. So the first thing I would do is eliminate high-stakes standardized tests, and if they won't eliminate them, I'd fund those schools that need things like laboratories, facilities and smaller classes in order to be able to function.
The second thing I would do is that I would cut class size, because I think our major problem in the urban schools is that our classes are too large. And that means more state funding, which brings me back to really the necessity to really raise taxes and raise taxes on those most able to afford and stop corporate welfare like Mr. Golisano's company got of $600,000. And I think we have to get rid of those kinds of concessions.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Golisano, the subject is improving education.
MR. GOLISANO
Staying on education, we'll get back to paychecks in a second. Nothing is more important to a society, both intellectually and economically than education. And what we have in New York State is sort of the tale of two cities: We have the best of times and the worst of times. If you travel around the state, in many of our suburban communities, people are very happy with what's going on in education.
But if you go to some of our urban areas like Buffalo, Rochester [says Roster, this is the closest I can find], Syracuse, Yonkers, our larger school districts, we're not doing so well. We're spending $15,000, up to $15,000 a year per student; we've got up to 60-percent drop-out rates and our test scores are terrible. We need to look at engineering and recreating education in those particular areas to improve it.
One of the things that has inspired the Opportunity Scholarship Program is education, where we're taking the state lottery money - this is my proposal - directing it to all students who can maintain a B average in public and private high schools and allow them to go to a public or private university in the state with a tuition credit up to $4,500. It will greatly enhance education and will keep our young people in New York State.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Mr. McCall, the subject is improving education.
MR. MCCALL
The first thing we have to do is change the education aid formula, the way aid is distributed is discriminatory, not equitable and fair. Governor Pataki went to court, spent millions of dollars to keep that failed system in place. And when the court came up with a decision that said that our children are only entitled to an eighth-grade education, the Governor embraced that decision. I could not.
I'm committed to making sure we fund education, we provide kids with the kind of opportunity I had. I grew up poor. I didn't have very much. I was on welfare. But you know my mother told me that the most important thing I could do was get a good education. My mother was right, it makes a difference.
And I'm going to make sure it makes a difference for our kids with my education plan, which is to reduce class size, which is to bring about accountability on the part of teachers, to have more pre-K programs and to bring about parental involvement. When parents work as partners with teachers it makes a difference. That's what we have to be committed to and we need a governor who's going to make education a priority. If we don't educate our kids, we will not have the sophisticated, trained work force which will be so vital to reviving New York's economy.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
There are certain things that have transpired in recent years that are very positive in the field of education. There's been the introduction of charter schools, things of that nature.
But I think we have to go a step further. This past summer, the Supreme Court has ruled that vouchers are constitutional. There was a great argument as to whether or not this was a constitutional approach of spending tax money. It is constitutional, the Supreme Court has said so, and I believe the time is now to turn around and you have the State of New York - I read an article, I believe the number is $11,000 a year - $11,000 is spent per student. And yet, in a Catholic school - I've been a Catholic educator, I'm in my 16th year as a Catholic educator and I want to say hello to my students at St. Catherine's because they'll get mad at me if I don't say hello. But I've been a Catholic educator for 16 years and for $3,000 to $4,000 they get the job done. So why is that we're spending $11,000, not getting the job done when Catholic schools are doing it at $3,000 to $4,000.
So I personally believe that there are some positive things. I agree with Carl that we have to get the family involved and some other good points were made. But vouchers is the way to go.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Cronin. Mr. Pataki. MR. PATAKI
I'm a product of the public schools of this state. And my parents early on inculcated in me the importance of an education so that you could set your sights to the highest horizon and achieve that.
We have to continue to have those same expectations and those same goals set for every single child in every community. And that's one of the reasons why we've provided record resources to schools over the course of the past seven and a half years.
This year New York public schools will get $4.9 billion more from the State of New York than they did seven years ago - record increases so that we can put the resources into the classroom.
The question was three specific things you would do to upgrade education. And let me respond to that specific question.
First, the most important thing other than parental involvement and strong families is a good teacher. We have new programs like our Teachers for Tomorrow program that are bringing thousands of good, qualified, competent teachers to schools across this state.
Second, we need accountability. And I'm proud of the reform we achieved this year giving the mayor control over the schools of this city so that he can make sure that those schools work.
And finally, an after-school program. To reflect the realities of today with working parents, we're creating programs across this state.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. I'm sorry your time is up. Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Our next question goes to Dave Evans and it's directed to Mr. Jeffrey. Dave?
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey, after 13 months we still don't have a plan as to what's going to be built at the World Trade Center site. What would you like to see built there? And please be specific. And also, who should have the final say as to what is built at the World Trade Center site?
MR. JEFFREY
Well, whatever we build we should definitely preserve the sanctity of the site. I would like to talk about a broader issue, which is we need peace at home if we are going to win a war on terror abroad. Now Democrats and Republicans play divide and conquer -
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey, if we could answer specifically the question about the World Trade Center site that would be much appreciated.
MR. JEFFREY
Well, you know, what would I know about that, so.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Aronowitz? World Trade Center site.
MR. ARONOWITZ
I live a mile and a half away from the World Trade Center site and I saw the destruction that had been visited upon it. And now 13 months later there's credible evidence that the federal and state government have not fully cleaned up that site and the residents around it are very worried. And the first priority before we consider the issue of what should be built is that we have to clean that site so it's safe for those residents.
And secondly, that site should have a memorial. And it should be a small memorial, a memorial that really paid tribute to the working people inside the buildings as well as the firefighters and police people who gave their lives to save people.
And thirdly, I think we ought to ask the people, both of the site area and the people of the City of New York, to make those decisions. And I think we need a series of town hall meetings to really develop plans and help make that site a multiuse site, not just a site for another tower.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Golisano, the subject is what to build at the World Trade Center site.
MR. GOLISANO
The World Trade Center has become a very important part of our history. You could reflect on it and say it's very similar to Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor has become a national monument and after 55 years people continue to visit it on a daily basis. I think the World Trade Center event is just as historical for the people of this country. So what I would like to see is a very appropriate memorial built on the World Trade Center site.
Secondly, I also understand the economic reality and the concern about economic development in the Lower Manhattan area. That is a very valuable piece of real estate. I would also like to see part of the real estate used to create an atmosphere for economic development, whether it be shopping, office buildings, whatever. A combination: very appropriate memorial and economic development for jobs.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Golisano, thank you. Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
Well, I think first we have to follow what we heard from Mr. Aronowitz, we have to make sure that it's a good safe place to live because the state hasn't done enough in terms of cleaning up the environment.
Secondly, we've got to provide benefits. We understand the state's been very slow in terms of providing benefits to people who live there and whose lives and whose economic activity was interrupted.
Then we have to put in place - as governor, I would in place a first-class group of people who have experience in terms of building and design, not just political fund raisers, to be responsible for planning. And I would empower those people to make decisions to get this plan moving. We've been very slow.
What we have to have on this site is, first of all, an appropriate memorial, that's got to be first. We also have to try to bring back as much of the commercial space that was destroyed as possible. We also ought to have cultural facilities there so that it is a diverse, 24-hour community that really is an appropriate bold statement about the fact that New York's downtown, New York's financial district is coming back.
Q.
O.K., Mr. McCall, thank you. Mr. Cronin, World Trade Center.
MR. CRONIN
The World Trade Center. I read an article the other day in the paper and it seems that one group is planning buildings while another group is planning the actual memorial and it struck me as odd. I believe what has to happen is those who have a vision for the buildings as well as those who have a vision for the memorial must get together. The memorial must be as sensitive and as appropriate as possible. We've all been touched. Some of my former students were killed at the World Trade Center. It's touched all of us. So something with names, if everyone's names were somehow included, if there was an eternal flame.
And at the same time, along with that there has to be the sensitivity that this is a commercial district, this is Manhattan. So one of the things, too, is that transportation, getting in and out of this city, perhaps with the rebuilding of that area at this time, perhaps we could be sensitive as to how to get the people in and out of Manhattan as well as creating new buildings and a memorial.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Cronin. Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Last Sept. 11, we were attacked in a way that was beyond comprehension and no one could have prepared for. New Yorkers responded with incredible courage and strength and unity, and I think the most important thing we do downtown has to be to have a memorial that shows the sacrifice people made on Sept. 11 and pays tribute to the heroes we lost, but that also shows the courage and the strength that we showed on that day and since that time.
Commercial and economic considerations have to take a back step to having an appropriate memorial. Beyond that there is so much that we are doing and will continue to do. We are right now putting in place a first-class 21st-century infrastructure that doesn't just create - recreate what was there last Sept. 11, but allows us to have multimodal capability to bring more people to view the monument and to help rebuild lower Manhattan.
We have to continue with redevelopment of the commercial and financial sector. We're doing that with companies like the Bank of New York, American Express, Merrill Lynch all having moved back in. And we have to be sensitive to the residents and the fact that this must be a residential and 24-hour community as well.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Leighton, the World Trade Center site, what should be built there?
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, this question is very personal to me. My co-founder of the Marijuana Reform Party was a New York City fireman who perished that day at the Trade Center. And John Perry, a Port Authority policeman, who also perished that day, was a strong supporter of our cause. So as I think about this, when I first began the campaign I thought, well, I should be a responsible candidate who would favor a mix of a memorial and modest development on the site.
But I've come to change my mind over the last few months and I feel regardless of what the business interests want there should be no commercial development whatsoever on this site. It should be a totally open green space with a suitable memorial in the center, and it should everybody's names inscribed on it who perished that day. It is important that we never forget the loved ones that so many of us lost that day.
And who should decide? I think the families of all the survivors should decide.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Leighton, thank you very much. Our next question is from David Ushery and it's directed to Mr. Aronowitz. David.
USHERY
Mr. Aronowitz, I want to ask you about something that has - some of the candidates have alluded to already and that is the culture of Albany. Critics say it's just absolutely dysfunctional. If a state budget were ever adopted on time, that would actually make real news. Some say that some laws are passed through without any great scrutiny. Governor Pataki promised to change that culture; Carl McCall has been a part of that culture for 10 years. Do you think it is dysfunctional and if it is, please give us a concrete example of what you would do to change it.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Well, in the first place, it's very functional if you're not interested in democracy. Three men in a room sit - the assembly speaker, the Senate majority leader and the governor - and they make all the decisions on the budget. We have an assembly and State Senate where people are elected to be decision makers and they're basically lobbyists to these three men to get their little piece of pork to bring back to their districts.
What we need is an open process. The culture of Albany is a secretive culture, it's a culture that excludes the people of this state from decision making. We ought to be having open meetings and discussions about the budget in every town, in every community. People should have an opportunity to see what the budget is. There ought to be educational programs on the budget, because the budget is really the most important thing this state government does. And it's the least understood by the citizens, therefore citizens have been largely deprived of their citizenship.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
I think any government that can't pass a budget on time for 18 consecutive years is a dysfunctional government. I mean no corporate can run that way, no family can run that way and no nonprofit organization can run that way.
One of the first few times I visited the state capitol I asked Mr. Bruno: Show me the room? And he showed me the room. And it's about 10 by 12, it's got a table in it with four chairs and two windows. I said: This is the way we run our state government?
I think about our poor legislators, they work hard, they raise money to run for office, they get to Albany and they basically have no function. Which is too bad. They give all their power away to the two speakers and I think that is dysfunctional.
The impact of special interest on Albany is huge. When you have millions and millions of dollars given to legislators and state officials to run for office, you are going to have a dysfunctional government.
I am the candidate, one of the candidates, that will not take special interest money. I can run for the real benefit of all the people of this state. Q.
Mr. Golisano, thank you. Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
You know, I'm glad you found that room, Tom, where they sit. Because when I get to Albany I'm going to seal that room so it'll never be used again. We've got to open up the process. It's dysfunctional. In fact we've run out of adjectives to describe how bad it is.
But you know what it gets down to? It gets down to leadership. The leadership hasn't been there in Albany to change the system.
Let me tell you what I'm going to do. I, as the governor, I will not approve any measure that has not been subject to legislative hearings and public scrutiny. We're not going to do things in the dead of the night, we're not going to do them in secret.
And the reason I want to open it up is not just so that the public will know what's going on. There are a lot of good ideas that can come from the public if we include them in an open process.
The legislators are left out. We elect them, they come with good ideas, those ideas need to be used.
We, I will provide the leadership to make sure we have an open process of making decisions about the budget and other policy matters in Albany. And that has got to be a No.-1 priority because we're not going to get New York moving forward again unless we have a functional way and an open, transparent way of doing business in Albany.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
The culture of Albany, I think there's just too much money in politics. And that's why I'm so grateful for today because I'm not a serious money candidate.
I believe it was on New York 1 News they mentioned how Mr. McCall, and I'm not knocking Mr. McCall, it's just what I heard, that he had to do 50 fund raisers in 45 days. That's unbelievable. So instead of thinking about issues and discussing issues they're running all over trying to raise money. So I think that's a problem.
I think our young people are being turned off by the Albany culture. And as the Right to Life candidate there are certain key pieces of legislation, for instance like partial-birth abortion and parental notification, that conveniently get locked up in these kind of committees. And people want to vote on these things and take a stand on these sensitive issues, and I know that there are different point of views. But let these things come out of committee, let these things come out of the back room and let people vote one way or the other. So the Albany culture, it's not helping our young people, that's for sure. And it's not helping the Right to Life movement.
Q.
Mr. Cronin, thank you. Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
We do need reforms to the processes in Albany and I'm fighting for those reforms. To open up the entire legislative system I support initiative and referendum. More than 30 states have it in America allowing people directly the opportunity when the legislature refuses to act on a proposal to initiate it themselves and then have a public referendum. I think that would be a very positive step towards opening up government.
With respect to the budget process I think one of the important changes we should make is to mandate conference committees, where when the Assembly and the Senate pass different versions of their budgets they are required in the open, in public, to have conference committees that negotiate the differences in those budgets.
I have proposed those reforms, the Senate has passed those reforms and I would hope that the Assembly would follow suit.
One of the reasons for the timing of the budgets is that we're the only state in America with a April 1 fiscal year. As every taxpayer knows, most people pay their taxes April 15, two weeks after the close of the fiscal year. We don't have the records, we don't have the indications as to what the revenues are going to be until weeks after the budget is proposed. So can change that date.
Q.
All right, thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, you know, we are talking about New York politics, so of course it's dysfunctional. New York has the greatest disparity of income between wealthy and poor people. And amongst the states the have campaign contribution limits, it has the highest limits. Maybe there's a correlation there.
I started with Gerry Brown with I began my career in electoral politics in '91. And he was campaigning on the $100 limit for all campaign contributions. I think what we need to do is get the money out of politics, first. To do that we need to restrict not only soft money, we need to lower the limit [of] private donations to $100. There should be no out-of-state donations and no corporate contributions.
Until we get the money out of politics, politics will always remain the shadow cast on society by business. And it's the only way we will every get meaningful reform in any government in this country.
Q.
O.K., thank you, Mr. Leighton. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
The problem with the politics in Albany is that the Democrats and Republicans play divide and conquer with the American people. Democrats demonize gun owners and look to confiscate our firearms. Republicans demonize pot smokers and incarcerate us in record numbers.
New York has always led the nation in embracing other cultures and beliefs. In my travels across the state I've brought my message of mutual respect to both hemp festivals and gun rights pig roasts. My message has been warmly received. Libertarians support the rights of all New Yorkers and look to unify us during troubled times.
Now there are a number of just very simple common sense issues that I'm trying to bring out with my campaign that you never hear in Albany.
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey, we're talking about Albany.
MR. JEFFREY
Right. So I'm saying I want to talk about marijuana legalization, gay and lesbian marriage rights, as I said before, ending the cigarette tax. You won't find a single politician in Albany who will support any of these issues, which I think a majority of New Yorkers believe in.
Q.
All right, thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Our next question is from Joel Siegel of The New York Daily News to Mr. Golisano.
Q.
Mr. Golisano, the governor controls the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, will you guarantee today that you will not raise subway, bus or commuter fares next year when you take office? And what is your plan to keep the fare steady or at least limit an increase in the fare? And again, we've asked the candidates for specifics here, can you be specific on this question?
MR. GOLISANO
The last thing I would like to see happen is our taxes raised and that includes commuter taxes and all other tolls and penalties for mobility. The fact of the matter is the state spends too much money and that is a very related topic. The reason you have high taxes is because our state spends too much money. We're the highest-taxed population in the state - or I'm sorry, in the country. If we were not the highest-taxed population in the country, we wouldn't have all this government spending. What we have to do is reduce government spending. The economics of adding more taxes or increasing taxes will do nobody in this state any good. Let's stop raising taxes, let's keep spending under control and let's cut off the impact of the special interests that drive this spending.
Q.
So are promising not to raise fares next year?
MR. GOLISANO
Promising not to raise fares? I will do everything in my power not to raise fares. I can't make a guarantee like that. I don't think anybody can.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Mr. McCall, fare hikes.
MR. MCCALL I certainly would not like to see a fare hike. The real problem is the Metropolitan Transit Authority under Governor Pataki has not provided to the public or to public officials information about their capital program or their operating program. We don't know what kind of fiscal condition we're going to face. I'm sure it's going to be a mess, I'm sure it's going to be difficult. And I'm going to do everything I can in terms of using my management skills that I've derived from the public and private sector to look at the M.T.A. and how to operates to see how we can reduce the cost and at the same time improve the service, and I want to do that without raising the fare because a fare hike is really a tax increase. And it's a tax increase on the people who can least afford the pay. The M.T.A. is the life line of our economy. We've got to make sure it operates properly, we've got to make sure it operates efficiently.
I do not want to raise the fare. I hope that will not happen, and I don't think anybody can make a commitment until we have more information about the fiscal condition of the M.T.A.
Q.
So do you have a specific idea, let's say a gas tax increase or a dedicated source of revenue that could prevent an increase in the fare?
MR. MCCALL
I'm not sure exactly how we can do it, but we have to find a way to do it. We have to find a way to do it without finding some other new revenue stream or some other new tax. We cannot - the people of New York are now overburdened with taxes: property taxes, state taxes. We pay more taxes than any other state in the nation. So let's not talk about increasing taxes.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Cronin, fare hikes.
MR. CRONIN
Taxes are too high. People work so hard and the harder they work, the less they take home. So the idea of raising taxes in the form of an M.T.A. increase is really not - it's really not a good thing.
However, can I stand - can I sit here and say definitively that I will definitely, if I were to be elected governor, that I would definitively not raise that? I can't say that definitively. I don't know all the facts and figures. You don't know what's going to happen in regards to, like we had no clue that we were going to have the World Trade Center tragedy of Sept. 11.
So I think for a politician to just make these flat-out statements, I think it sounds good, it feels good, but it's just not - it's not honest.
Q . O.K. Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Bill, I'm very proud of the tremendous record that the team we've put in place at the M.T.A. has achieved in improving service and lowering cost. The M.T.A. is working far better than it has, subway service has improved. We've moved to a complete nonpolluting fleet of bus service in this city and in this region.
One of the things I'm proudest of is that we ended the two-fare zones where you used to have to pay to take a bus and a subway, two fares. And we also introduced the MetroCard. And because of expanded use by people of our metropolitan transportation system, the average cost of a ride for a person with a monthly MetroCard has gone down to $1.06. It's the first time in the history of America where the cost of a mass transit system has gone down.
Two specifics to avoid a fare increase: one, by improving service, we attract more riders and increase revenue; two, we restructure and reorganize the M.T.A. They just announced a proposal to save hundreds of millions of dollars that would allow us to continue to look to have the lowest possible fares and the best possible service.
Q.
So, Mr. Pataki, are you promising no fare hike next year?
MR. PATAKI
I'm promising we're going to do everything in our power to do those two steps: one, reduce the costs by restructuring and continuing to make the system more efficient. And the board just announced last week a proposed restructuring that will save hundreds of millions of dollars. And two, to do exactly what we did when we got rid of the two-fare zone for buses and subway riders - expand ridership and increase revenue. By doing that we can avoid a fare increase.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Tom Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, I would pledge there would be no fare increase. People are being squeezed right now and they just cannot afford it. And I think there are three simple ways we can come up with money to cover it. I would favor a temporary - I say temporary - restoration of the commuter tax. After 9/11, I think everybody who comes to New York City understands the problems we're in and would be happy to help us get out of them so they can continue to come here and function in a positive business and entertainment environment.
Secondly, I would consider raising the rate of the one-day, seven-day and weekly fare cards a little bit. They'd still be bargains, but it would bring in new revenue.
Thirdly, as a former Green Party candidate, I'm very concerned with the environment. I would seek to charge all cars what come into Manhattan south of 96th Street between the hours of 9 and 5, all the bridges on the East River, there should be tolls. And if you're going to bring your car into the city, in a crowded city in business hours and pollute the city, you should pay for the privilege of doing that.
Q.
O.K. Thank you Mr. Leighton. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Well, as a native New Yorker, I actually have never learned to drive a car, even though I'm 34 years old. So I'm a very, very big supporter of our city's public transportation. I don't think there's anywhere else in our country where this could happen.
The Libertarian Party is firmly against regressive taxation, such as would be through a fare hike, and I myself also would like to see the cars removed from Central Park. There's not much benefit in terms of reducing traffic and yet there's Rollerbladers, bicyclists, joggers who would love to use that.
We also need to look at - there are tolls and public transportation being used as a cash cow to bring in revenue rather than simply supporting the activities that the fares are meant to support.
Q.
O.K., thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Well, I'm so glad that Tom has repeated some of the Green Party program because it saves me a little time.
I actually - my pleasure - I actually think that we should not increase the fare from $1.50 to $2, as has been proposed or at least suggested. And here are some specific suggestions.
I think we ought to start moving towards banning cars from Manhattan between the hours of 9 and 6 with an experimental program which would increase transit passenger use and do it on a one- or two-day a week basis. You may think this is an odd idea, but in fact it's widely used in places like Mexico and Italy and other European countries because they realize that automobile traffic is regressive in comparison to mass transit, it's environmentally unsafe.
Secondly, I would increase for the City of New York the gas tax. We pay the lowest gas prices of any country in the civilized world and it's about time that we realized that this is regressive. And those were some of our ideas.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Thank you, sir. Before we begin round two of questions, gentlemen, I want to ask each of you a couple of quick questions and I'd like to have very quick answers, 10 seconds if you can. We'll start with you, Mr. Leighton. Have you ever crossed party lines in a major election, we're talking about president, governor or senator, and voted for someone who is not in your party? If so when and for whom? Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, it'd be hard for me to answer that. I've changed my enrollment a number of times. But I have done that. And in 10 seconds to try and quickly call it to mind, I think, is more than I can do.
Q.
Yes would be the answer to that.
MR. LEIGHTON
The answer would be yes and I would do it again.
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Yes, actually I voted from Harry Brown for president twice before I was a Libertarian.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ I was a registered Democrat in '96 and 2000 and I voted for Ralph Nader.
Q.
Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
Absolutely. I voted for people in the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, the Independence Party. I think it's great for the process and better for New Yorkers.
Q.
Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
I'm a Democrat but I voted for John Lindsay for mayor when he was a Republican, whenever that was.
Q.
Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
I'm the Right to Life Party candidate but people may be surprised I'm a registered Republican. I believe that you have to stand up for what you believe in and if it means crossing over voting or whatever it is, that's perfectly fine.
Q.
Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Yes, I have. I've voted for Democrats, I've voted for people in many different party lines.
Q.
Can you recall when you did that?
MR. PATAKI
Yes, I can.
Q.
Can you tell us who it was for?
MR. PATAKI.
No. One of the great aspects of our democracy is we have secret ballots.
Q.
Point taken. Thank you, Mr. Pataki. All right, second question. Again, 10 seconds please, gentlemen. Mr. Jeffrey, you're going to start. There is talk of reviving the repeal of New York City commuter tax that could bring in nearly half a billion dollars a year to a city that desperately needs it. Do you favor bringing back this commuter tax?
MR. JEFFREY
As much as I'm a strong supporter of the city, no, I do not. You shouldn't pay a tax without representation.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Aronowitz?
MR. ARONOWITZ
Yes, I am. If people use our facilities, our Fire Department, our Police Department, our sanitation department, they should pay for it. And we need the money. I'm for restoring the commuter tax.
Q.
Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
No new taxes. Reduce spending. Create jobs. That's what it's about.
Q.
Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
No. People are terribly overburdened, particularly the people in the suburbs who would pay this tax because of the shift in the fact that they have to pay these high property taxes. So I'm against reinstituting the commuter tax.
Q.
Mr. Cronin?
MR. CRONIN
I'm against the raising of the commuter tax again.
Q.
Mr. Pataki?
MR. PATAKI
We had 377,000 jobs displaced after Sept. 11. We have to fight to bring every one of those back, some from other states. To re-impose the commuter tax would be the wrong thing.
Q.
Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, as I said before, I favor a temporary restoration until we get out of the morass of 9/11.
Q.
O.K. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for the short answers. We are going to begin round 2 and we are going to reverse the orders of the candidate answering the questions. It was from left to right - not for you gentlemen, for us and the cameras - and we're going to go now from right to left. We ask for the second round you keep your answers to 45 seconds, please, 45 seconds. We begin the questions with Dave Evans with a question for Mr. Pataki.
Q.
Mr. Pataki, for a second if you could, look back to 1994. Back then when you first ran for governor against Mario Cuomo, you wanted only one-on-one debates. And back then you said it would be a distraction to include the third-party candidates. This year though you said, and there's been some recent publicity about this, that you would only do a debate if the third-party candidates were included this time. Why the reversal?
MR. PATAKI
Well, I think debates are an important thing. And I think it's tremendous that so many people are watching today and seeing us discuss the issues and the future of this state. Mr. McCall, when he challenged me to debate, said he wanted every candidate to participate and I thought that was appropriate. I think it's appropriate that the voters have the opportunity to choose from all of those who are going to be on the ballot on Nov. 5. To say that I pick and choose who is going to be there as governor of this state is not the right thing. So I think allowing this free discussion, allowing this open involvement by everyone who the voters have the option to vote for on Nov. 5 is the appropriate course to take.
Q.
But why did you not in 1994 think so?
MR. PATAKI
I don't think the governor should set the determination as to who debates or who doesn't. I think it should be done by the law. And the law provides how you qualify to be on the ballot. Everyone of the candidates here this morning, now this afternoon, has qualified to be on the ballot. I think it's appropriate that the voters have the opportunity to hear them. Mr. McCall suggested that we do exactly that when he first called for debates.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Cronin?
MR. CRONIN
Well, obviously I think this is a wonderful opportunity for my candidacy as the head of the Right to, as the candidate of the Right to Life Party. But I also think, I'm a school teacher and I can honestly tell everyone out there that students are not plugged into politics. And it's too much money and commercials. And I think the kids are, once again, my kids, who I'll see tomorrow, they're going to be all excited when they see Mr. Cronin tomorrow at school because Mr. Cronin's on TV. How are you kids?
But the thing is we have to get the kids involved. So I commend Governor Pataki and Mr. McCall, I commend everybody here, The Daily News, WABC. We have to re-invigorate the political process and the debates are, whether it's rich candidates or not-so-rich candidates, I think this is a very positive thing.
Q.
Mr. McCall?
Q.
Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
Well, first of all, I also want to say hello to Mr. Cronin's kids out there. He's doing a great job, kids.
Let me just say this. I think it's good to have everybody here. I'll participate in a debate anywhere at any time. However, we should get down to the fact that some candidates have a better opportunity to get elected because of their party affiliations. So I think it would also be good to have an additional debate where we have the candidates who have the most likely opportunity to get elected. And I think that kind of debate would be a little more instructive and a little more helpful to the public.
So I challenge Governor Pataki or anybody else here who would like to go one on one with me. It's the way we used to do it back in my old neighborhood. You remember, you Stan, you go out in the playground one on one and you really show your stuff and you really let people know what you stand for, and you defend your record and you talk about your vision for the future. That's what New Yorkers need. So anybody here who would like to go one on one, I'd be glad to do it with you.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
Well, I was involved in the process in 1994, referring to your question. Myself, Mario Cuomo and several other candidates debated. Mr. Pataki opted not to attend those debates so I have the same question you do.
I also would like to add that during the 1994 campaign, which, for me, was only about two months, I had to endure six specific lawsuits by the Pataki campaign trying to keep me off the ballot. Maybe that's what he was talking about as far as qualifying for the ballot.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Well, I'm so glad that Governor Pataki had a conversion experience. It seems to me that we all ought to be allowed to be born again and that's great.
But you know one of the reasons that this is a good process is because it gives us an opportunity to influence one another. For example, Mr. Golisano came out for free tuition for people who had B's. And Mr. McCall has come out for reducing higher education fees by 25 percent. We call for free tuition. Now, that kind of discussion can only take place if all of the parties are involved in the debates, and really we can begin to influence one another. And I think if we have exclusive debates what we're saying, essentially, is that the multiplicity of views that now is present among State of New York political people should not be represented. And I think it's great that we are represented.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
I would like to thank Mr. Pataki for having us here. It's a tremendous opportunity. And I would like to thank the panel for bearing with me as I try and bring out the youth agenda.
But it's important for voters to understand that your vote for governor is actually two votes: it's a vote for the man you want in the governor's mansion, it's also a vote for that party to give it official status. That's why I'm running. I'm not expecting to be elected, I'm looking to get 50,000 votes, just 1 percent, to give the Libertarian Party official status in New York State. And what this will allow us to do is run hundreds of youth candidates each year and groom a new generation of leadership.
So, again, thanks for the opportunity to present our Libertarian and our pro-youth views.
Q.
Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, I hadn't thanked the governor before or ABC or The Daily News and I'd like to take this opportunity to do so. This is a very unique and very rare opportunity for minor-party candidates to be in debates. They don't usually get this chance. And who knows what it could lead to. I mean, maybe this week, next week one of these wealthy candidates, they might come along and try to take my issue - I don't know, maybe they'd say they're for medical marijuana - and advertise it all over the TV and try to lead the voters to think that if they voted for them it would be better than voting for the Marijuana Reform Party. So being here today gives me a chance to lay out our agenda and let people know what we stand for and why we also need 50,000 votes to create a party to make major changes in the drug laws in this state.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Leighton. The next question is for David Ushery to Mr. Cronin. David.
Q.
Mr. Cronin, the Indian Point nuclear power plant is now, certainly, a recognized target for terrorists. Some 20 million people live near it. There's also been questions about how it operates. Should it be closed and if you think it should, and please be specific with this, all candidates give us a specific answer as to how you would make up that power supply.
MR. CRONIN
I don't believe it should be closed. I know it's - I believe in our ability. First of all, nuclear power is the way of today and the way of the future. We live in a great state with millions and millions of people with all sorts of business, and we need energy sources - resources. Until we have something different, we have to go with what we know.
I believe we have to spend the extra money necessary to secure Indian Point. And I believe so far that's been done quite successfully. So I'm confident that our safety is quite - very much there. And I believe that Indian Point must remain open.
Q.
Mr. Cronin, thank you. Mr. McCall, the issue is Indian Point nuclear power plant.
MR. MCCALL
Well, Governor Pataki really missed an opportunity when he certified the evacuation plan. It's really not possible to evacuate the large number of people who would be affected if there was some accident there. If he did not certify that plan, it could have moved toward what I'd like to see and that is a decommissioning process that would end up closing the plant.
The decommissioning process would mean that you would deal with the issue through conservation and other measures, make up for the energy loss and replace it with another source. Secondly, you'd deal with the jobs of the people who work there. Thirdly, you would make the plant safe by getting rid of the fuel and the rods. All of those things have to be done as we move toward closing the plant.
The governor has now brought in a commission or at least somebody to look at the whole plan and to advise on what should happen. But of course, that advice won't be - those recommendations won't be forthcoming until after the election.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
We have to stand up and make a decision today.
Q.
Thank you, sir. Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
Indian Point is a very large concern. It's very obvious that the ability to evacuate all the people that may be affected by a tragedy there is a huge concern.
We have technical experts. We need to get resolve on whether or not that plan is dangerous or not. We find ourselves very much similar to the situation with the Long Island Lighting Company where the state had to bear something like a $6-billion expense in remuneration to Long Island Lighting Company because of the closing of that plant. This state cannot afford to make mistakes like that. It's happened too many times in too many different places. Let's get our arms around the risk and let's make a decision whether to open it or close it. But the appropriate officials have got to do that.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Read my lips: Close Indian Point now. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has said it is one of the three or four most dangerous of the 103 nuclear plants around the country.
Secondly, once we've closed it we have to have a decommissioning process. That decommissioning process will employ 750 of the 1,500 workers. The other 750 workers need a plan of guaranteed income and retraining.
Thirdly, what we need to do is we need to entomb the rods and the fuel. We need to do that over time.
Now, as far as the new energy sources are concerned, there is every reason to believe that there are reserves that could still provide energy for the counties that are effected by Indian Point. There is no danger. But in the long run, what we need is different sources of energy.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Jeffrey, Indian Point.
MR. JEFFREY
Yeah, the Indian Point power plant should be closed down. It would never have been built in the first place, again, without government subsidizing big corporations.
As to replacing the energy source, hemp provides an enormous potential resource, both for our state and for our nation. And the oil companies are deathly afraid of hemp and do much to subsidize campaigns of Democrats and Republicans who will never legalize marijuana and legalize industrial hemp.
The people of our state need to rise up and, again, support an issue that a majority of us believe in.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Jeffrey. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, I most definitely favor closing Indian Point. Having been a candidate since 1994 in various races, I've always had that position. I think there's plenty of power in the grid to make up for it. It's been shown that we'd probably be O.K., but I wouldn't guarantee that.
What I would say is that what I would do is put incentives in place for alternate energy - wind, solar, geothermal. There has never been a serious effort in this nation or this state to advance alternate renewable sources of energy and they could more than adequately make up for any loss of power.
Q.
Mr. Pataki, should we close Indian Point?
MR. PATAKI
Bill, this is a personal question to me because I live there. I live within just a handful of miles of Indian Point. My kids go to school within in a few miles of Indian Point.
So after Sept. 11 I called on the federal government, which has control over that site, to completely review the operation, everything from the licensing to the operation to the evacuation plans, to see if they work in light of the new era that we live in today. They haven't done that to my satisfaction.
So I have brought in James Lee Witt, who was the head of FEMA under President Clinton, an expert on these issues, to do a thorough and complete investigation. And whatever that determination is, whether it's to close the plant or to change processes, I will support.
It's easy for a politician to say I'm going to do this. We have to have credibility when we go to those federal agencies and let them know that there are facts behind our opinion.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Next question is from Joel Siegel to Mr. McCall.
Q.
Mr. McCall, you have described the upstate economy under Mr. Pataki as being in a shambles. Yet at one point earlier this year you had spent only $14 million of a $250-million fund designed to grow New York businesses. What's your plan to improve the economy? And why should voters believe that you're the man to undertake it?
MR. MCCALL
Sure. Well first of all, the money that has been invested in upstate New York comes from the pension fund. We don't give money away, we have to make sound investments. That's why just last week The New York Times did a review of my management of the pension system and pointed out that we have the best performance in the country among large pension funds. So we invest in terms of fulfilling my fiduciary responsibility to get the best returns on our investment, which saved taxpayers about $4.5 billion dollars and increased benefits to retirees because my management of the pension fund, rather than making investments that might not be sound.
My economic development play calls for putting professionals in charge, not political fund raisers. It calls for making sure that we use our universities to provide the intellectual input to economic development plans. And it calls for promoting New York. Not promoting myself on television with taxpayer money, but going out, promoting New York, telling people about the fact that this is a good place to come and work and do business.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall. Mr. Golisano.
MR. GOLISANO
Jobs in the upstate economy are a real serious concern. Some people say our young people moving out of the state is one of our newest, greatest export products. I don't think there's anything sadder in the world than having parents or grandparents watching the moving van pull away from the curb with their children moving to another state so that they can get a job.
Mr. Pataki's approach to this has been let's target specific companies, let's give them financial aid, financial grants, tax incentives, and then maybe they will create jobs. We were very fortunate with Adelphia, we almost wrote them a $150-million check before they went bankrupt.
The way to really produce jobs in this state is to lower taxes, reduce workers compensation rates, reduce the bureaucracy and bring down the cost of health insurance. That's the only way we're going to create new jobs in this state.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Golisano. Mr. Aronowitz?
MR. ARONOWITZ
We need a two-pronged approach. And the first one is to help small businesses, particularly small farmers, and people who will develop alternative energy sources in this state. With state assistance we can go a long way to replacing nuclear and fossil fuel based energy.
The second thing that we need is more state funds. I have no faith in the private sector, the big businesses of this state, to create jobs anymore. I.B.M. is leaving, Xerox is leaving, Eastman Kodak is leaving. Many of these companies will never come back and there are many reasons for that. So what we need is state funding of health care to create jobs, state funding of education, state funding of environment and energy cleanup.
Q.
O.K., thank you, Mr. Aronowitz. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Again, we need to end corporate welfare and quit favoring giant corporations over small businesses. Up in Rochester they're planning to build a high-speed ferry to connect it to Toronto. All that's going to do is have New Yorkers vacation in Toronto and spend their dollars there.
In Syracuse they're building the Carousel Mall, the largest mall in our state, again on taxpayers dollars. All that's going to do is drive down the Main Street businesses and the other malls in the area. So again, we need to quit spending taxpayer money on these boondoggles and allow small businesses to thrive.
Q.
Mr. Leighton, fixing the economy.
MR. LEIGHTON
Well, I already touched on that and I have to return to it. Because we've heard great generalizations from all the candidates. But my plan relies upon new business, new industry, which means new revenues and new jobs. Establishing a hemp industry, as I said, will save that family farm. It will save our forests from being cut down and that's very important for tourism and bringing dollars into upstate.
We do need to pursue one of the key planks in the Marijuana Reform Party platform and it needs to be done now. Hemp has been used for thousands of years, it has tremendous industrial value. And we should not shortchange ourselves with family farms dying and the government subsidizing crops that cannot be grown in upstate New York.
Q.
Mr. Pataki, fixing the economy.
MR. PATAKI
Bill, I know the impact when a factory leaves a community. My home town had one large employer with over 1,000 people. Both my grandparents worked there. My uncles worked there. I worked years when I was going to college. And it left, it left New York State. And it had a devastating impact on our community and on families. And that's why since my first day in office I've known in these challenging times we have to fight for every single job. Three quick points: Tax cuts, record tax cuts passed by this state were going to do more to encourage investment and job growth across New York State. Two, empire zones: Two years ago we created a new tool, empire zones, which are essentially allowing companies that invest and create jobs to operate in a tax-free basis for a period of years. We have the largest chip manufacturing in the world upstate in an empire zone. We have a new steel mill -
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
- in an empire zone upstate.
Q.
All right. Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
I also believe that lowering taxes is the way to keep people here. New York has so much to offer because if you live upstate, upstate is so beautiful and yet within a relatively short period of time you can be in the world's greatest city. So I believe that there's a lot here to draw people and if we set up the proper package for both big and small businesses through lower taxes and incentives of that nature, I believe that upstate New York can benefit from that.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Cronin, thank you.
MR. CRONIN
Thank you.
Q.
We have just about four minutes left, gentlemen, till we begin our closing statements and I'm going to give another lightning round series of questions. I will ask you keep your answers to 15 seconds. And, Mr. Golisano, we're going to go this way. We'll come back this way for the second one. Mr. Golisano, we'll begin with you. There is right now, no term limit for the office of governor. Should there be?
MR. GOLISANO
I think there should be. I think if we put term limits not only on our governor but on our legislators, we could greatly reduce the impact of special interests on our state government. And that would give us more objective government, government more attuned to the people.
Q.
O.K., Mr. Aronowitz, term limits.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Term limits on the governor of two terms, but none on the Legislature, because the Legislature has to be there for decisionmaking. The governor has a lot of power and centralizing his power or her power is a very bad thing for democracy in our state.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
I'm against any term limits and limiting the choices of our voters. The problem is a lack of leadership and new ideas.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
I'm against term limits. I think the solution is getting the money out of the political system. Once all candidates can have an equal chance to present their case, the voters will make an informed, educated choice.
Q.
Thank you. When you first took office, Mr. Pataki, you supported term limits, said you'd limit yourself to two terms. Will a third term, if elected, will this be your last?
MR. PATAKI
Well, I do support term limits. I think we should pass a constitutional amendment to impose them on statewide office and also on the Legislature. I just hope the people give me the opportunity to continue to lead this state, and if they do I will do everything in my power every day over those four years to work to make this a stronger and more unified state.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Pataki. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
I'm against term limits because I believe the voter should have the opportunity of all people involved. For instance, Mayor Giuliani, chances are very good he would have been reelected to another term. Why shouldn't the people of New York have had the opportunity? That's not to say anything against Mr. Bloomberg, but we have to have all the choices available.
Q.
Thank you. Mr. McCall.
MR. MCCALL
I'm against term limits. The public really has to make the ultimate decision in terms of how long they want to keep people in office.
Q.
O.K., Mr. McCall, thank you. We're going to start the second lightning round question with you, Mr. McCall. Several local governments have now passed strict no smoking regulations to protect the health of workers. Would you support a statewide ban on smoking in public places and the workplace.
MR. MCCALL
Yes, I would.
Q.
That's a yes.
MR. MCCALL
Yes.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Cronin.
MR. CRONIN
Yes, I would. But I think in a bar or in a restaurant, particularly in a bar setting, I don't think that's realistic. If a person wants to have a cigarette and a beer, they should be able to do so.
Q.
Mr. Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Yes, I would, as well.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Leighton.
MR. LEIGHTON
In family environments, restaurants, yes. But in bars, clubs, rock concert halls, would not want to do that. And if the state really wants to do that, they can set up a process for adequate ventilation systems instead.
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey.
MR. JEFFREY
Many small businesses have just completed upgrading their ventilation, spending tens of thousands of dollars. No, I am not in favor of banning cigarette smoking.
Q.
O.K. Mr. Aronowitz.
MR. ARONOWITZ
I'm in favor of banning cigarette smoking in public places except bars. But then I would give bartenders a great deal of time off from that activity, because it would hurt them more than any of the customers.
Q.
O.K., thank you. Mr. Golisano, the issue is banning smoking statewide.
MR. GOLISANO
I would support the ban on smoking in public places.
Q.
O.K. Thank you, gentlemen, for keeping your answers short, I might add. Time now for the closing statements. Each candidate will have one minute. This order, like all the other orders, was selected by a random drawing and so because of that random drawing from a hat, Scott Jeffrey, your closing statement first.
MR. JEFFREY
I'm running for governor to empower youth by providing our generation a voice in politics. Young New Yorkers are politically apathetic because we never meet candidates with whom we identify and who campaign on issues relevant to our lives. We need leadership ready to represent.
I am not running to be elected. For me, victory is 50,000 votes to give the Libertarian Party official status in New York States. Fifty thousand votes would allow us to run hundreds of youth candidates each year and groom a new generation of leadership.
Libertarians believe in liberty, freedom from government control over our lives. Libertarians support the rights of all Americans, from gays to gun owners, from property owners to pot smokers.
Now, we all know that Governor Pataki is going to be reelected. Please don't waste your vote on a meaningless contest. Instead I invite you to join our efforts to empower youth by voting Libertarian on Nov. 5.
Q.
Mr. Jeffrey, thank you. Carl McCall, you're next.
MR. MCCALL
Over the last eight years, Governor Pataki has failed to provide the leadership we need in New York. He hasn't improved our education system, he hasn't provided jobs, particularly for people in upstate New York, and he hasn't improved health care. And now we have the embarrassing scandal of fragile vulnerable people being warehoused in nursing homes. New York needs new leadership.
I've had a wealth of experience in New York in the public and private sector and I now want to use that experience in my commitment to getting New York moving forward again by making sure all of our kids get a first-class education, by making sure that our elderly people have an affordable quality health care system and that we bring down the cost of prescription drugs. And I want to provide jobs for people in every part of the state. I'm tired of hearing people tell me that their kids have to move away to get a job.
These are the things that we have to address and I'm going to provide the kind of leadership that we need so that we address these critical concerns in New York State. And that's why I'm running for governor and I look forward to providing leadership that will move us forward.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. McCall, didn't mean to step on you there. Carl McCall, the Democratic candidate for governor. Stanley Aronowitz of the Green Party.
MR. ARONOWITZ
Yes, needless to say, we need 50,000 votes to stay on the ballot. We are a ballot-status party.
Voters of New York State have two choices that they can take. One would be the old system of the two-party system. The second would people who have single issue concerns.
The Green Party is an alternative. It's an alternative way of thinking about our environment, our health care, our education as well as our energy resources. What we need in this state is a multiple-party system.
But we also need a party in New York State that recognizes that until we end the war in Iraq and the war machine buildup that has taken place by the Bush administration, not a single dime is going to come to New York State and therefore all the talk about education and health and so on will really go by the boards.
So I repeat, we need to tax fairly and we need to spend wisely, and we need to have a real alternative in New York State politics.
Q.
Stanley Aronowitz, the Green Party candidate, thank you very much. Next Tom Leighton, the Marijuana Reform Party candidate.
MR. LEIGHTON
I'm running for governor to create the Marijuana Reform Party. And to do that, as you heard, I need 50,000 votes. I'm running on three main issues: medical marijuana; a total repeal of the Rockefeller drug laws; and allowing New York farmers to grow hemp for industrial purposes.
We need to have a medical marijuana policy based on medical science and not political science. New York does not permit voter initiatives or referendums. Creating the Marijuana Reform Party is the only way that we will advance medical marijuana in this state and other drug law reforms.
In closing I ask you, if you or one of your loved ones had terminal cancer, AIDS or another serious disease, wouldn't want your doctor to be able to prescribe marijuana if it would help ease your suffering for you or your loved one? If you feel that way then when you go in the voting booth on Nov. 5 make your vote count and vote for the leaf.
Q.
Tom Leighton of the Marijuana Reform Party, thank you. Next, and again this was chosen in random order, one minute please, gentlemen, Gerry Cronin of the Right to Life Party.
MR. CRONIN
Well I think today's debate demonstrates the great need for the Right to Life Party. Four very good men asking question, seven candidates very sincere, not a single mention about abortion.
The abortion issue is a very serious issue. In New York State there are 132,000 abortions each year. If you divide that by 365 that means more babies are killed each day than firemen were killed on September the 11th.
My second point, and I have great respect for the governor, but I totally disagree with him. On September the 17th he signed a bill into law called the Women's Wellness Act, which had many good points but it would force Catholic institutions, Catholic hospitals, Catholic charities, Catholic schools, that their employers must pay for contraceptive devices, which in turn create abortion.
So I respectfully disagree with the governor. It was termed as the most anti-Catholic piece of legislation by the Brooklyn Tablet, which is the Catholic church's paper for Brooklyn and Queens.
So when you go into that voting booth on Nov. 5, think of the babies. It's not about Gerry Cronin, it's about the babies and they need your vote and your voice.
Q.
Thank you, Mr. Cronin. Gerry Cronin of the Right to Life Party. Now in the random order of closing statements, Tom Golisano, candidate for the Independence Party.
MR. GOLISANO
Ladies and gentlemen, there's an old expression in business: opportunity knocks. When opportunity knocks some people actually complain about the noise. I want to offer an alternative. On Nov. 5 you're going to be walking into the voting booth, and we have an opportunity to make such a strong statement not only across this state but across this country that it's time to revolutionize politics. Voting for a third-party candidate who has the resources to be competitive, who has the campaign issues and the campaign knowledge to be competitive and effective, is just an awesome opportunity.
If I'm elected governor you don't have to worry about special interest influence on me. I can cut waste, fraud and abuse. I can do the things that are best for the population of this state and not of the special interests. And one more thing, if you elect me and I hope you do, you don't even have to pay me.
Q.
Thank you, Tom Golisano of the Independence Party. And finally the random order of the closing statements, Republican candidate, George Pataki.
MR. PATAKI
Well, Bill, thank you again for this debate. And I want to thank the people of this state for the tremendous privilege and honor of having served as your governor for the last seven and a half years.
We live in the greatest state in America. From the beaches of Long Island to the Adirondack Mountains, from the canyons of Manhattan to Niagra Falls, this is a unique and wonderful state.
But what really makes us special are the people of New York. We come from every corner of this country and every corner of the globe. But we've shown the country and we've shown the world over the course of the past year that we stand together. When we stand together shoulder to shoulder with a common vision we can accomplish anything.
My goal as governor has been to serve all the people of this state. Not one region or another, not one community or interest or another, but to have a vision where we can move forward together in unity and in confidence of our great future. Together we can build a better health care system, bring a 21st-century economy to every single community, have the best education for every child across this state. Together we can continue to make this great state prouder, stronger and more unified.
Q.
Mr. Pataki, thank you. And thank you all gentlemen for 90 minutes of informative and sometimes very interesting and riveting debate. I appreciate it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/13/nyregion/14DEBA_FTXT.html